Pushing off some thoughts of the book, Hearing God's Voice, Tom notes that preachers, he's talking of the late forties and early fifties, tended to the notion that if we make a common sense reading of the Bible, we will interpret the Bible alike.
Let's see, since the death penalty was generally lifted for heretical views in the 1500's, followers of Christ have branched out into an ever greater variety of interpretations. So, empirically at least, unity does not seem possible. Does this mean that it is possible that one day we will achieve that goal? I have had conversations where I say it is not possible to interpret the Bible alike. But it has been countered that Jesus prayed for unity and that his followers all be ONE. So it is countered that Jesus would not want us to pursue something that is impossible.
But late in life I see that disagreement and conflict leads to progress. Not sure how to resolve this.
Monday, March 31, 2008
Thursday, March 27, 2008
The Emergent Conversation and the Churches of Christ
On the Stone-Campbell list, the question was asked about how the emergent phenomenon may be affecting the Churches of Christ. Here was my answer:
Fred Peatross, from Huntington, WV. and former missionary, writes a blog for Wineskins called "Abductive Columns". The links in the sidebar to "ezines". These are sites that are oriented toward the emergent conversation. This column began fairly recently but his earlier blogs and web site discuss it positively. In them he has interviewed Leonard Sweet and Brian McLaren, for instance. Wade Hodges, a CofC minister in Tulsa, did a series of articles on "An Emerging Church of Christ?" in 2006. John Mark Hicks, in a May 20, 2005 entry to his blog reviews in a positive manner a book "Beyond Foundationalism" by the late Stanley Grenz and John Franke. The emergent conversation draws on is a reflection of postmodern critiques from books like this as well as other authors mentioned by John Mark in the review such as Merold Westphal and James K. A. Smith.
Over the long term, this may be a flash in the pan, but, overall, I have benefited from these writings and recommend further instruction from them. Ironically, this forum back in 2003 led to my investigation of this because of certain comments here critiquing the enlightenment and mentioning the postmoderns.
Fred Peatross, from Huntington, WV. and former missionary, writes a blog for Wineskins called "Abductive Columns". The links in the sidebar to "ezines". These are sites that are oriented toward the emergent conversation. This column began fairly recently but his earlier blogs and web site discuss it positively. In them he has interviewed Leonard Sweet and Brian McLaren, for instance. Wade Hodges, a CofC minister in Tulsa, did a series of articles on "An Emerging Church of Christ?" in 2006. John Mark Hicks, in a May 20, 2005 entry to his blog reviews in a positive manner a book "Beyond Foundationalism" by the late Stanley Grenz and John Franke. The emergent conversation draws on is a reflection of postmodern critiques from books like this as well as other authors mentioned by John Mark in the review such as Merold Westphal and James K. A. Smith.
Over the long term, this may be a flash in the pan, but, overall, I have benefited from these writings and recommend further instruction from them. Ironically, this forum back in 2003 led to my investigation of this because of certain comments here critiquing the enlightenment and mentioning the postmoderns.
Monday, March 24, 2008
Easter Sunday
Dorothy and I drove to Nashville yesterday to see my son and his girlfriend. I had arrived the night before from his spring break medical mission trip to Guatemala. Attended a neat Easter Service at the Otter Creek C of C. Lee Camp, author of Mere Discipleship spoke. It was gut wrenching.
The service was quite different from what I'm used to. I guess we haven't as they say been getting out much. They had a Praise Team on a podium, all miked. A man and a woman got up and read the post-Resurrection scene from the Gospel of John. Yes, a woman reading scripture! A woman sang solo for the first few lines of a song during the communion. The words to the songs were projected onto a screen but the notes were not there. A couple of the songs I didn't know and so that was frustrating not to be able to belt it out. Most I knew at least somewhat.
We went to Red Lobster, ate, and looked at my sons trip pictures on his laptop.
The service was quite different from what I'm used to. I guess we haven't as they say been getting out much. They had a Praise Team on a podium, all miked. A man and a woman got up and read the post-Resurrection scene from the Gospel of John. Yes, a woman reading scripture! A woman sang solo for the first few lines of a song during the communion. The words to the songs were projected onto a screen but the notes were not there. A couple of the songs I didn't know and so that was frustrating not to be able to belt it out. Most I knew at least somewhat.
We went to Red Lobster, ate, and looked at my sons trip pictures on his laptop.
More on Our Style of Interpretation
The dominant approach to Scripture in his youth, according to Tom, was that it was:
a book of facts
a constitution
a book of rules
There was quite of bit of emphasis on opposing the following things:
large churches
expensive buildings
located/salaried preachers
divorce
dancing
drinking
smoking
card playing
movies
When I came along twenty years later this list had changed some. Buildings, located preachers, card playing and movies were off the list. Well, I remember reference to spot cards. Playing with family card games like Rook, Old Maid, Bible Authors, etc were OK, but not playing with spot cards, the ones most gamblers use. Two additional no-no's were the wearing of shorts and mixed bathing.
a book of facts
a constitution
a book of rules
There was quite of bit of emphasis on opposing the following things:
large churches
expensive buildings
located/salaried preachers
divorce
dancing
drinking
smoking
card playing
movies
When I came along twenty years later this list had changed some. Buildings, located preachers, card playing and movies were off the list. Well, I remember reference to spot cards. Playing with family card games like Rook, Old Maid, Bible Authors, etc were OK, but not playing with spot cards, the ones most gamblers use. Two additional no-no's were the wearing of shorts and mixed bathing.
Saturday, March 22, 2008
The Origin of Our Style of Biblical Interpretation
From Chapter 3 of Hearing God's Voice:
"All the early leaders of our movement emphasized facts and reasonableness, and negated "enthusiasm" - especially Alexander Campbell, Walter Scott, Raccoon John Smith, and to a lesser extent, Barton W. Stone."
Tom is writing of the style of preaching in his youth in the 30's and 40's. It squares with my experience too, in my youth in the 50's and 60's.
British empiricism widely influenced most Americans in the 1800s, especially in the frontier regions . . The emphasis on science, beginning in the latter part of the nineteenth century, escalated the importance of the factual, empirical data of the Enlightenment.
He states that the empiricists John Locke and Francis Bacon were read widely and the first college associated with us was named Bacon College. I didn't know that.
Until about five years ago, I would have said "And they were completely right, this way of thinking is the only way. What else is there?" But thanks to a number of things I've read in books, the internet and an E-list, I am emerging from what William Blake called "Newton's Sleep".
"All the early leaders of our movement emphasized facts and reasonableness, and negated "enthusiasm" - especially Alexander Campbell, Walter Scott, Raccoon John Smith, and to a lesser extent, Barton W. Stone."
Tom is writing of the style of preaching in his youth in the 30's and 40's. It squares with my experience too, in my youth in the 50's and 60's.
British empiricism widely influenced most Americans in the 1800s, especially in the frontier regions . . The emphasis on science, beginning in the latter part of the nineteenth century, escalated the importance of the factual, empirical data of the Enlightenment.
He states that the empiricists John Locke and Francis Bacon were read widely and the first college associated with us was named Bacon College. I didn't know that.
Until about five years ago, I would have said "And they were completely right, this way of thinking is the only way. What else is there?" But thanks to a number of things I've read in books, the internet and an E-list, I am emerging from what William Blake called "Newton's Sleep".
Friday, March 21, 2008
The Indirect Approach to God
Back from Myrtle Beach and the business of turbine engine health. The best reading is on planes. Here is a great quote from Kevin Hart from his book "Postmodernism" that I was re-reading. It comes out of Ch4. The Fragmentary.
The path along which we walk to God is nothing if not indirect. We draw close to him when we rise from our prayers and help the stranger, the orphan and the widow.
The path along which we walk to God is nothing if not indirect. We draw close to him when we rise from our prayers and help the stranger, the orphan and the widow.
Sunday, March 16, 2008
The Scripture Through the Eyes of Parents and Grandparents
In chapter one of Hearing God's Voice, Through the Eyes of Parents and Grandparents, Tom gives a short bio of his grandparents and then how his parents met and their bio up to the time when Tom is little. His first memories are in their rural setting and attending a house church at his maternal grandfather's home then at a church built close by from a donation of grandpa's land.
All of us as children are immersed in our immediate surroundings and pay close attention. That is what forms us. Tom describes his maternal grandfather when he says "My grandfather's study of the Scripture was akin to puzzle solving. The Bible was a handbook of puzzles as well as the means for resolving them." For example his granddad enjoyed wrestling with how the Apostles became members of the church and whether they had been properly baptized. For him, the Bible was a "guide book for church disputation and practice."
His mom was a voracious reader. She enjoyed the stories in the Bible and instilled that in Tom and his siblings. She loved to tell stories. He says "I tended to favor my mother's somewhat unarticulated agenda that the Bible has more to do with the replication of the ives of those whose stories are told than with argument over words and doctrines." These stories are for her models of proper living.
Tom's dad, was raised in Nebraska, the grandson of a German immigrant. "He interpreted the world according to the current realities, according to facts and reason. He was a hard-working pragmatist." And he also said that his father had a "healthy skepticism of any point of view which strayed from the data of his experience or from an authoritative source, such as the Scriptures."
When I read through this chapter the first time, I was most attracted to Tom's mother's approach. I understand today, more than ever, the importance of the story aspect of scripture and that it forms us deeply in ways we are only dimly aware. In one of my early formative church memories, in about the first grade, we are in Sunday School in the basement of our church building in Lansing, MI, let's say 1957, and I'm looking at pictures of children being brought to Jesus and of Jesus healing and feeding people. For me, that is the "real" Jesus. My readings and experiences in recent years enhance the importance of narrative and story.
Looking back on my life, when I was a teenager and younger man, I had the illusion that I was in concert with Tom's dad. Like Mr. Spock of Star Trek, I believed in reason and logic. One shouldn't stray too far from the basic data in the Bible nor get too emotional or speculate about and adumbrate it with interpretations.
Initially I thought that I had little in common with Tom's granddad's approach. But upon reflection it partially describes me as well. I'm not interested in the same puzzles as he, but different ones. I spent quite of bit of time in the 90's to mid 2000's reading up on the Synoptic problem and wondering if Q existed and would ever be found. I've read many a blog and e-group list about the historical Jesus, who wrote the Bible, the Gnostics, and other attendant mysteries and historical conundrums. Why did I do it? Partly for better understanding and that is good. Partly for confirmation of my views. I thought it was my curiosity but it was also because of my personal issues and predisposition.
All of us as children are immersed in our immediate surroundings and pay close attention. That is what forms us. Tom describes his maternal grandfather when he says "My grandfather's study of the Scripture was akin to puzzle solving. The Bible was a handbook of puzzles as well as the means for resolving them." For example his granddad enjoyed wrestling with how the Apostles became members of the church and whether they had been properly baptized. For him, the Bible was a "guide book for church disputation and practice."
His mom was a voracious reader. She enjoyed the stories in the Bible and instilled that in Tom and his siblings. She loved to tell stories. He says "I tended to favor my mother's somewhat unarticulated agenda that the Bible has more to do with the replication of the ives of those whose stories are told than with argument over words and doctrines." These stories are for her models of proper living.
Tom's dad, was raised in Nebraska, the grandson of a German immigrant. "He interpreted the world according to the current realities, according to facts and reason. He was a hard-working pragmatist." And he also said that his father had a "healthy skepticism of any point of view which strayed from the data of his experience or from an authoritative source, such as the Scriptures."
When I read through this chapter the first time, I was most attracted to Tom's mother's approach. I understand today, more than ever, the importance of the story aspect of scripture and that it forms us deeply in ways we are only dimly aware. In one of my early formative church memories, in about the first grade, we are in Sunday School in the basement of our church building in Lansing, MI, let's say 1957, and I'm looking at pictures of children being brought to Jesus and of Jesus healing and feeding people. For me, that is the "real" Jesus. My readings and experiences in recent years enhance the importance of narrative and story.
Looking back on my life, when I was a teenager and younger man, I had the illusion that I was in concert with Tom's dad. Like Mr. Spock of Star Trek, I believed in reason and logic. One shouldn't stray too far from the basic data in the Bible nor get too emotional or speculate about and adumbrate it with interpretations.
Initially I thought that I had little in common with Tom's granddad's approach. But upon reflection it partially describes me as well. I'm not interested in the same puzzles as he, but different ones. I spent quite of bit of time in the 90's to mid 2000's reading up on the Synoptic problem and wondering if Q existed and would ever be found. I've read many a blog and e-group list about the historical Jesus, who wrote the Bible, the Gnostics, and other attendant mysteries and historical conundrums. Why did I do it? Partly for better understanding and that is good. Partly for confirmation of my views. I thought it was my curiosity but it was also because of my personal issues and predisposition.
Monday, March 10, 2008
Hearing God's Voice Chapter 1
How should we read the Bible? That is an important issue for the fellowship of the Churches of Christ, my heritage. A heritage that has produced Pat Boone, Ken Starr, Max Lucado, Lester Holt, Laurie Anderson, and others. We stress the importance of Bible study and the necessity of each person to habitually read and apply what it says. This of course presumes that the Bible is in large part accessible to common sense reading. Tom Olbricht's book, "Hearing God's Voice" grew out of his desire and the requests of others to present a book on Hermeneutics. Tom helped to make hermeneutics a hot topic in the fellowship beginning in the 1980's.
Hermeneutics is the study of the rules of proper interpretation. This is not an ivory tower activity. The attention given to this has led many within the fellowship to move away from some more traditional beliefs and practices that define, at least for some, what it is to be a member of the Church of Christ. Rather than write a scholarly tome on the subject, something Tom was qualified to do and could easily have done, he chose to write an autobiography, showing how his personal story intertwined with his life and desire to Hear God's voice.
What does Tom mean by hermeneutics?
"By hermeneutics, I mean the perspectives and commitments from which believers put questions to the Scriptures in order to determine how to hear the voice of the living God and live accordingly."
The way we interpret is not without presuppositions. It is shaped by both culture and theology, he says. As he relates "My upbringing has forced me to perceive the Scriptures from a number of angles."
So, to practice interpretation properly, we must know ourselves, know who we are and what made us into what we are. The best way for Tom to do this was by means of autobiography. I'm sure he learned things in the writing of it as he thought back to the past and examined it in the light of his present.
Hermeneutics is the study of the rules of proper interpretation. This is not an ivory tower activity. The attention given to this has led many within the fellowship to move away from some more traditional beliefs and practices that define, at least for some, what it is to be a member of the Church of Christ. Rather than write a scholarly tome on the subject, something Tom was qualified to do and could easily have done, he chose to write an autobiography, showing how his personal story intertwined with his life and desire to Hear God's voice.
What does Tom mean by hermeneutics?
"By hermeneutics, I mean the perspectives and commitments from which believers put questions to the Scriptures in order to determine how to hear the voice of the living God and live accordingly."
The way we interpret is not without presuppositions. It is shaped by both culture and theology, he says. As he relates "My upbringing has forced me to perceive the Scriptures from a number of angles."
So, to practice interpretation properly, we must know ourselves, know who we are and what made us into what we are. The best way for Tom to do this was by means of autobiography. I'm sure he learned things in the writing of it as he thought back to the past and examined it in the light of his present.
Saturday, March 08, 2008
Theological Worldview
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What's your theological worldview? created with QuizFarm.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| You scored as Emergent/Postmodern You are Emergent/Postmodern in your theology. You feel alienated from older forms of church, you don't think they connect to modern culture very well. No one knows the whole truth about God, and we have much to learn from each other, and so learning takes place in dialogue. Evangelism should take place in relationships rather than through crusades and altar-calls. People are interested in spirituality and want to ask questions, so the church should help them to do this.
|
Have taken these before. This was too long and complicated to have purposefully concocted a result. I'm surprised by the results actually. As with all such tests, many of the questions need an extra axis or two besides choosing a range between agree or disagree. Its the highest degree of Catholic I've ever scored on one of these.
Have taken these before. This was too long and complicated to have purposefully concocted a result. I'm surprised by the results actually. As with all such tests, many of the questions need an extra axis or two besides choosing a range between agree or disagree. Its the highest degree of Catholic I've ever scored on one of these.It seems to me that my group, the Church of Christ, is moving towards a generic evangelicalism. That is way down my list.
Tuesday, March 04, 2008
Touching Base
Am so busy and my thoughts are going all directions. I would like to re-read "Hearing God's Voice" and to record my thoughts here but haven't had quality time to do so. I've peeked at Nancy Pearcy's Total Truth and that has caused my mind to storm some. Stop that. Deadlines at work. Presentations to give. Testing and reporting. My son at the U. of Memphis is home now as its his spring break.
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